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Author Topic: Navigating  (Read 1819 times)
Rick Marchand
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« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2009, 03:31:20 PM »
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Well in my usual fashion, I'm gonna answer prior to reading the other responses. Then I can go back, read 'em and begin the apology posts at that time.... lol ok


I break down navigation into three parts (bear with me... sometimes my thinking is somewhat unconventional, to say the least)...

1. Location Awareness.
2. Sign Recognition.
3. Course Plotting.

Maps, GPS's and compasses are tools that no woodsman should intentionally be without. That said you can apply these three techniques without the use of modern navigational tools or maps.

I'll give a very brief rundown of what each part consists of, as not to bore you with my ramblings.

Location Awareness - Be aware of your location, relative to it's starting point and perceived course. Have an overall picture in your mind of the area you are in. Is there a ridge to the East?.... a marsh to the South?... Which way was the water flowing as you walked next to that creek? are you in a bowl, a saddle or on a hill? Which way is the wind blowing in the morning? Does it change direction in the evening? is the Sun at your back in the morning? If you can see the land features, try to project yourself to that "outcropping" and look back to your camp. What do you see?.... begin to draw a map in your head of the camp layout compared to the landscape. Reach out past your 50yrd bubble and look at the "big picture".

Sign Recognition - Begin to look at navigation as "tracking". Pick up some basic skills to recognize direction of travel in animal prints. Learn to read "natural direction indicators"... vegetation responds to the sun and elements, as do land features. What can a willow tell you about the land? Why do the tips of the trees seem to point in the same direction? is it the Sun? are you in a natural wind tunnel? How many game trails did you pass along the main path? Where do game trails lead? Why does the raven "caw" when it flies over you? (that one gets 'em every time, lol)

Course Plotting - Along with Location Awareness comes the responsibility of knowing where you want to go and the way you intend to get there. You need to have more than a bearing to navigate the wilderness. You have to read land features (this bleeds into Sign Recognition) and be familiar with what you can expect to encounter in that valley. Why would you want to avoid that saddle at this time of the year? Is your destination achievable before dusk? Know your limits and allow yourself a "buffer" to deal with any unforeseen obstacles.

Again these techniques can compliment your map reading skills and if need be, help you get out of a difficult situation when a map is not an option.

This stuff crosses over to many other wilderness skill sets.... Fire, Water, Food, Shelter. I see it like this.... You can learn key phrases of a foreign language to get you by when on vacation. "which way to my hotel?", "what time is it?", "I'll have 2 beers, please."...... but what if you took the time to learn the language from the ground up? Do you think you would have less chance of accidentally insulting your taxi driver's mother, landing yourself in the worst part of town with a pocket full of traveler's cheques and a big ole camera around your neck!..... why are they all staring at you?

I hope this made sense to you..... because I'm a bit confused, myself.

Rick
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Rick Marchand
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« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2009, 01:48:18 PM »
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Something I do in addition to the map and compass, and "dead reckoning" (I have a few GPS's but have yet to use one, lol)
Is to "blaze" my back trail periodically as I go with a small notch of my design in the bark of a tree, on a branch, etc...
I don't favor the various "bright eyes" reflective tape gizmos, surveyors tape, etc...  as I think, that although potentially helpful,
they litter up the woods I love so much; just MHO.  I have found that the unobtrusive back trail marking can be helpful quickly.
I wonder if any of you do something like this, and am curious on your thought on it.
Will
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bulldogdvm
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« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2009, 03:56:06 PM »
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For sure, it is amazing how things look different on the way back.  This can be due to sun, clouds, being on top of the hill looking down, instead of on the bottom looking up, etc. 
I try to remember to "mark" my trail as much as possible, with out just running a string the whole way, which by the way IS what I do in a cave!  But remember to use the same side of the trail, same type of mark, with in the same amount of steps, and always at the same level.

In other words, if you randomly break a limb, once you are turned around and you find that limb, you won't know which direction to the next limb and so forth.
I am right handed, and it seems more natural for me to mark on the right side of the trail.  For that purpose, I make sure to mark the right side every time so on the way back, I will just keep the marks on my left.  I try to keep them a certian amount of paces apart, or less.  That way in dense cover I know that there will be another mark within x amount of steps, find the last one, walk no more than that amount and then back, continue until I find the next one.

That being said sometimes that mark on the right side of the trail is on the Other side of the tree, and you can walk around it for a long time before finding it, that is why in areas that I have not been, I like to make a mark visible from all sides, like an orange ribbon with the knot on the right side of the trail.

Just random thoughts from a random mind!
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Brian Andrews
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« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2009, 01:04:47 PM »
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You guys are talking about a topic that is very near and dear to my heart. So, I am about to get very long winded on you here.

BTW, I recognize almost everyone from other forums. But, I recently found this place, am new here, and hope that I am not butting in! If so, just tell me to butt out!

Gross navigation

First, the type of navigation that Reid initially referred to is what I consider Gross Navigation. It consists of familiarizing yourself with ANY map of your area, know your intended area of travel, and understand a gross bearing (or safety bearing) that will get you back out.

This will work over 99% of the time. It might not be the most direct route, you may have a long walk ahead, and you might not know exactly where you are on a map. But at no time are you ever truly lost.

The problem is, I have seen many folks not even take the time to get even that level of familiarization with an area, not have a safety bearing, and I have even seen some spend a night in the woods because of it. When in reality they were in an area that was virtually impossible to get “lost” in.

I do not mean to pick on anybody, because in general everything that I make a comment about, I ended up learning the hard way. I don’t mind admitting that I have been way beyond disoriented myself. However, I have come a LONG way from those days, and now feel that this is one of my most competent skills.

I have used gross navigation successfully for years. The problem with it (as I see it) is that it keeps you from learning the most important, valuable, and useful navigation skill. Terrain Navigation.

Terrain navigation

Everyone can be shown how to acquire a bearing from a map, how to point a bearing, and how to transfer a bearing to a map. It can be learned in minutes and doesn’t take much more than that to master. Terrain Navigation however, is slower to pick up, and you are continually learning it. However, once you get decent at it, you can navigate very quickly and with confidence.

People look at contour lines and say “I know what those mean.” But, do you? Can you really visualize the terrain? If so, can you relate that visual to what you are seeing in the real world? If the answer is yes, you are golden. In my experience, most people never take this leap in their navigation. There is no way around getting good at it than dirt time.

Keep in mind that difficulty varies on area. Out west, it seems everything is painted in huge pictures. It seems the easiest thing in the world. You see mountains, hills, ridges, and can easily position them and yourself on the map. Now, go to Michigan where your visibility is 100 yards, and ONE contour line is supposed to tell you a story, and that is where it gets REAL TOUGH. The saying that I teach is that if you can do this in Michigan (where it is very tough), you can do it anywhere.

So, here is the idea, and this is how I go in the woods. 7.5 minutes USGS map printed from software on 8.5 by 11 paper (will come back to that later) in hand, folded twice so that it is a quarter the size. That method is not a burden to carry. If it is a burden, I won’t do it. So, this is pretty easy to do.

I know where I am starting my venture, so I put my thumb on the map. Every so often, glance at the terrain, orient the map, and move my thumb to the new location. I do not find this hinders my enjoyment when out at all. In fact, I like doing it so it a way it is fun. Although, I know I am weird.

However, it takes practice to be fast at it. Like I said before, there is no way around getting good than dirt time. In this initial learning is where it may seem like a huge hindrance.  However, once learned, this is an awesome way to go.

But, this then leads me into dead reckoning.

Dead reckoning

You guys are confusing me a bit on dead reckoning, and maybe it is just a terminology thing.

To me, dead reckoning is used when you have no terrain features, or any other noticeable land mark to navigate with. You have to use a bearing, and some method of estimating distance (pace counting or time based method) to estimate your new location, based on your old one. I covered terrain based recognition, and to me, dead reckoning has really nothing to do with terrain, surrounding, etc. In fact, it is used when you can not do terrain based. Examples are:

Example 1: (Reid this one will be familiar up there in the UP) You have miles of area, no contour lines and nothing but swamp markings on the USGS. A lot of the UP is this way : )

Example 2: (Also a common occurance in the UP) No contour lines (so no terrain to relate to) and forest so thick your visibility is measured in feet. Dead reckoning means take a bearing, get a landmark (it may only be 50 feet away!) walk, and estimate distance in a method you are comfortable with. That way you can continually update your location.

Is this what you guys are intending when you say dead reckoning? It is the comment by Reid that is really confusing me.


Dead reckoning is really a matter of knowing nature and the woods, applying subtle and not so subtle clues like the stars or the sun and memory.
 

Map availability

In North America, this is a non issue. Maps are available. For example, a software program called Terrain Navigator is sold by state and is high quality scans of USGS maps. As an example, the state of Michigan contains over 1800 USGS maps. It would be insane to try and buy them all, so this software is cool. The price is about $80 per state, and $50 for a National Park version.

If you travel a lot, buying software by the State is not practical, Delorme is great if you are willing to put in more time learning. It is available for $100 for the entire US, or can be purchased in EAST and WEST halves at $50 each. The problem is that in order to cover such a large area, the Delorme contour data (even when set to high level of detail) just sucks, in my opinion. However, it can be loaded with USGS scans, or even aerial imagery.  Which means, you either have to buy them from Delorme individually, or get a $30 per year subscription that will let you download them all for free whenever you want. This is my current method and I think it is worth the cost of the subscription. Here is some more on why.

Many of the USGS maps are old. They have a lot of old roads (such as old logging roads in the UP) but not much trail data at all. So, you usually end up navigating with a USGS map and a trail map. Trail maps are generally horrendous and can be confusing. Delorme however, has a lot of popular trails loaded. So, you can use the software in a “Hybrid” mode combining USGS maps and Delorme’s trail data, etc. Pretty neat stuff, but you really have to be into it. Because there are some map printing issues to learn as well with this software.

Thoughts on GPS

In my opinion, GPS is not a main navigation method. It is an awesome tool, can accelerate learning, and they have some cool features. However, it is an electronic, battery operated device that relies on satellite signals. Once stated that way, I can not imagine too many people willing to place their well being in its hands.

I have come up with an excellent method for using GPS as a complimentary (not primary) tool, but don’t want to get into here (too much typing). But, if you are interested in that, let me know.

Brunton Eclipse 8099

Someone asked for opinions on this one, so I am going to let you have it! : )

I would love to love this compass, but can not bring myself to. In inexperienced hands, I consider this compass dangerous. Here is a quick summary of why (well hopefully quick).

The problem with this compass comes in with sighted bearings. In the 45 degree position, the line on the mirror should be able to be aligned with the sighting line on the user side of the capsule. This will allow you to ensure that you are not looking at the compass from a funny angle.

The problem comes in with reading bearings where the orienteering and north arrows are off to either side of center (90 degrees and 270 degrees being worst case). This presents a problem with parallax. You are now no longer looking down on that compass and are introducing angles into your alignment.

On a typical sighting compass this is accomplished by making the north needle and meridian lines/doghouse parallel. No biggie.

But, Brunton is using the “circle over circle” technology with this compass. There is no way to make things “parallel.” To make things worse, the obvious alignment is the wrong one. With the mirror in the correct position, and north/orienteering arrows aligned like they “should be” measurements can be up to 7 degrees off.

You don’t have to trust me. Do the following experiment yourself. Set the compass down on a stable surface. Set a bearing of 90 degrees (worse case). Align north arrow and orienteering arrow. Now, without moving anything, view the capsule from above. Chances are, you are significantly off!

I came up with 3 ways to try and correct this:

1)   Use the orienteering arrow as a “parallel” line to try and align. Problem is that if you use it adjusted for declination, putting you right back to the same problem.
2)   Try to get “used to” what the correct picture for alignment should look like. Problem is the degree of mis-alignment changes between 0 and 90 degrees. To much work for a compass. Kind of like trying to learn leads on a skeet house.
3)   If you lower the mirror height to the compass, you can get this to work. However, when you do that, you can no longer see the alignment line (on the user side of the capsule). So, you have to toggle mirror position up and down a few times to make sure you didn’t change overall position of the compass. It works, but you have to be exact in that mirror position. Go too low, and it will screw you up again.

I have put a lot of time in trying to like that compass, and won’t use it except for non-sighted worked. There is just too much possibility for error that I don’t need when I am cold, wet and hungry. Bottom line, if you decide to go with, learn that one well! Otherwise, ebay!

Cammenga Compass

This thing is super heavy duty, bulletproof rock! I have had one for years. However, it has one big drawback that keeps me from using it. That is lack of a protractor.

If you want to quickly pull an exact bearing off a map, it does not have a protractor. With a baseplate, you simply align edge with direction of travel, spin the capsule until the meridians in the capsule line up with north/south meridians on the map, and you are done.

The military style (and brunton’s preferred style, but not only possible style) is to orient the map, then obtain your bearing direct. There are 2 problems with that:
1)   After you orient the map, holding it still in the field while you spin your compass can be difficult, to say the least. Add bugs, rain, fatigue…..and you see where I am going with this.
2)   Depends on magnetic north. It is using the north needle to give you a bearing off the map. The protractor is simply measuring the relationship between desired direction of travel and the north lines. This does not change if you are right side up, upside down, or under water. It is just an angle. The north needle could be a fan blade at that point : ) Trying route planning on a table, and you will find that there is metal all over the place, effecting every bearing you take. Now, you can’t trust any of them.

The obvious solution to number 2 is to use a separate protractor. But to me, I wonder why carry another piece of equipment, when a $10 compass has one built in?

Still, despite that drawback, if I were forced to choose one compass to have for the rest of my life, that one would be high up on the list. Just not as easy to use as others.

Silva quality comments

I have heard lots of rumblings of Silva quality going down hill on the internet. I tend not to believe stuff until I have seen it. I have personally experienced once recent incident. A student showed up to a class with a brand new Silva Ranger with a non-magnetized needle. Just pointed wherever the fluid decide to let it land!  wacko He went out and exchanged it for a $5 made in china one that points north. It is only one sample point, but is still pretty significant.

Personally, I am using Suunto. I think their global needle is the coolest thing. Not just for the world traveler, but it dampens fast becuase the magnetic force is close to the axis of rotation (like a disc compass). It is also VERY forgiving for hold angle (not that I endorse improper technique). They have it on their baseplate (M-3G) and sighting models (MC-2G). They also have metric and English versions (for that map scales).


B


« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 01:14:49 PM by Brian Andrews » Logged
Big Mike
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« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2009, 09:27:32 PM »
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Good stuff Brian, and I agree with you, in dense woodlands it’s very hard to pick out reference points.


But by constantly using your compass and map, and keeping on eye on your surroundings, you will have a good reference to where you are, or a least what direction is the best bet to get back to safety.



It’s good to see you here my friend. focus
« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 09:31:27 PM by Big Mike » Logged

Mike.

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Brian Andrews
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« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2009, 07:58:35 AM »
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Hi Mike,

Thanks for the welcome! I guess I should have posted an introduction first, but I got so excited when I saw my favorite topic, I just had to start posting  Smiley

Then again, I think I recognize everybody here!

I hope to hang around for a bit too. This place looks great.

Sorry to get off topic.........back to the regularly schedule navigation converstation  Smiley

Take care,
Brian
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Southerncross
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« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2010, 05:21:00 AM »
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G'day Reid

...............SO, how do you do it?

There is no doubt that a topo map & a compass are very usefull (especially when you have a identifiable reference point like a landmark).  So is a topomap & correctly functioning GPS (especially when you are in featureless country like our outback)  good

However nature will give some clues that can be used to double check / confirm that the primary navigation aids are operating as they should.

How many use the position of the sun at that time of the day to double check they are heading in the right direction.?

How many use the subtle hints the plants in the area can give you about general direction?

Together they all can ensure you are on the "right track" (especially when you are in an area where the only tracks are left by animals) biggrin



Kind regards
Mick

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